HealthCare for you, your momma, and Obama

thanks for commenting. you're the first and you get extra credit interesting stuff about the public option…

1. Do you Support/Oppose the HealthCare Reform Bill or Undecided? Why?
Yes – having moved here from England 6 years ago and being used to (admittedly poorly working sometimes) national healthcare system find it very peculiar that many many people in one of the Worlds leading countries can't or don't get healthcare because they can't afford it!

2. Do you currently have HealthCare?
Yes – and feel very priviledged to do so.

3. Have you read the entire Bill?
No.

4. Where did you get your information?
TV and newspapers

extra credit points

1. (optional) Do you have kids in public school / did you attend public school?
Private pre school right now. Going to VPK in the summer and then either Charter School or public school in the Fall.

2. (optional) Do you have auto insurance?
Yes – didn't realise it was an option!

3.(optional) Do you currently receive Social Security benefits?
Nope – and proably wouldn't qualify either!

thanks for the comment! nice to get a response from someone that might have a different reference point than the rest of us, given your somewhat recent move across the pond.

Undecided. No one really knows if this reform bill will make things better or worse. It will affect a number of areas – healthcare industry/insurance/economy/etc. And I don't know enough about it to say how it will help or hurt any of these areas. I am an optimist, but my big picture view of our country is not rosie. Our economy is at the breaking point. I care and I want us to provide to every citizen every opportunity in the world, but I am also a realist and understand that there comes a point when we must finally say we can't provide anymore. History proves with more government power comes more corruption, and more corruption comes the crumbling of a nation.

This will eventually lead to more corruption starting with lobbyists. The IRS will be enforcing this reform and I don't know why people aren't concerned about "Big Brother." I'm a Libertarian and think its funny how Bob Dillon was singing about bringing down the machine and not trusting big brother and now look at us. They could be singing for the other side now. The further the pindulum swings the worse off for the people. We'll keep arguing, while they (all government) keep gaining power.

2. Do you currently have HealthCare?
Yes

3. Have you read the entire Bill?
No.

4. Where did you get your information?
TV – CNN
Internet – Drudge Report
Radio – Michael Smirkonish (Sp?)/
I try to cover both sides of the aisle.

extra credit points

1. (optional) Do you have kids in public school / did you attend public school?
Public for my kids and I.

2. (optional) Do you have auto insurance?
Yes

3.(optional) Do you currently receive Social Security benefits?
No.

wow. thanks for taking the time to respond. (i was able to smush it all together into one comment). agree, we won't know for sure until it kicks in. i heard one of the Rep's say, "if not this bill, then what? if not now, when?" certainly, is going to make for an interesting ride…

Do you Support/Oppose the HealthCare Reform Bill or Undecided? Why?
Undecided – I would like a public option IF it will allow for individuals with pre-existing conditions to be covered at a DECENT rate. My family and I have recently become a victim of the health insurance industry. We have been covered by BCBS for 18 years. Last May my husband lost his job of 17 years and we have been on COBRA ever since. Luckily the government is footing 60% of the COBRA bill, otherwise we would not be able to afford this insurance. We have been "shopping" around for affordable yet decent health insurance and have been declined due to pre-existing conditions. By the way, we were turned down by the company that currently has covered all of these pre-existing conditions. Their loop hole is because it was covered under group insurance and the new coverage would be under individual. NICE. I didn't see what Sandee had to say about the bill, but I wonder what her thoughts are.
Do you currently have HealthCare? Yes – see above COBRA, but only until August
Have you read the entire Bill? Has anyone???? Where can I get a copy?
Where did you get your information? News, CNN, C-SPAN

extra credit points
(optional) Do you have kids in public school / did you attend public school? YES
(optional) Do you have auto insurance? Yes
(optional) Do you currently receive Social Security benefits? No, but I definitely pay into SS.

Here is a different opinion. I am 64 yrs old and have as yet to see Any government program that works better or cheaper than private. I oppose Big government.. We need to get back to our local chuiches and local govement helping those in need. A healthcare reform is needed but not what has just passed and the way it passed. ( too mamy deals etc. ) I don't care if it has been done this way for years it is wrong. Where will the money come from for this bill? I dont' believe that it reduce our debt. I receive SS now and It is only a small percentage of what I have paid in. We have healthcare insurance and also auto insurance . No small children in public schools. Granddaughters will graduate this year and next year. My information was gotten from the computer, TV Cspan, Cnn and Fox and newspapers. I did not read the present bill. I tried to read the first bill in December (4,000 pages) . I think most younger adults will be for this bill and most ( my friends and family) oppose.

1. Do you Support/Oppose the HealthCare Reform Bill or Undecided? Yes I support the bill, but I really wanted the public option. Why? I believe that it is a moral imperative to care for the poor and the sick.
2. Do you currently have HealthCare? Yes
3. Have you read the entire Bill? No and I don't know anyone who has.
4. Where did you get your information? Various news organizations, political talk forums.
… See More
extra credit points

1. (optional) Do you have kids in public school / did you attend public school? Yep, they go to the socialist institution called Stanford Elementary
2. (optional) Do you have auto insurance? Yep and it is mandated by my state government.
3. (optional) Do you currently receive Social Security benefits? No, but I pay in to it for others and hopefully someday myself.

Do I support the Bill: NO, several reasons. 1st It is not the role of our government to provide for the people. That was never a part of the constitution. Should we provide for people that can not provide for themselves out of charity or grace, Most DEFINITELY. However, it is not the role of government to do such things, that is the place of the CHURCH and PRIVATE organizations. Hence why we called to tithe AND give gifts and offerings. I am trying to keep this short. so I will stop there.
2nd With the economy in the tank as it is now how are we supposed to pay for this. Christ again calls us not to be borrowers or we become slave to the lender, so where is the money coming from to pay for all of these subsidies?
3rd. I think that it is interesting that we call this reform. What have we made better? This bill has been sold as affordable yet no one has defined affordable. There are 2 sections in the bill that have the word affordable in them. TITLE 2 subsection B and TITLE 3 subsection C, yet it does not say what affordable is or define affordable for who. My point is this Bill has been sold as an affordable option to access health care, but I don't see how? again to keep this short I will stop here.

2) Do I have health care now? NO, the reason why is it was more affordable to pay as we go than it is to pay for health insurance. I am married with 2 children and we are all relatively healthy. No major health problems. With that said I have had to pay for a few major incidents( Kidney stones and a child's broken arm) out of pocket. Interestingly enough we were covered with the broken arm. Deductibles are evil is all I will say on that.

3) Have I read the entire Bill? Most of it. It is easily accessible via internet. GOOGLE HR 3962 and it is available in PDF format. It takes some time to digest but it is not a bad read. Think flowery legal ease.

4) Where did I get my info? At first TV, FOX news, Neil Boortz, Talk radio etc. THEN I read the bill.

Extra Credit

No I home school my children, it is not the role of government to educate. It may be more convenient to send children to school. But as a product of that environment I cant say I am better off.

Yes I do have auto insurance- again by mandate of Law. That does not mean that I am better off for it. what we are required to have is not nearly sufficient to cover any actual losses. Just food for thought.

No I don't currently receive Social Security benefits. And yes Social Security is an oxymoron.

Ben, you're awesome. I'll stop there to keep it short. Thanks for the food for thought!

Deanna, thanks for the comments and a different opinion. Always refreshing and good for the discussion.

Kim, so sorry to hear you are all some of the \”victims\” of the current situation. I am cautiously optimistic that what is in motion might be cause for good change or at least the catalyst.

Well all i got to say is that im currently in the military, and i known alot of my fellow brothers have been hurt and needed surgery. One had to wait upwards of 7 months to get surgery on completely torn ligaments in the knee. Appointments get cancelled all the time due to overbooking, and not filling out the right paperwork. Its bad, and i feel sorry that America will have to suffer this same system. Also, nobody is talkin about the student loan reform. It gives the Government more control over how student loans are done in our Country, and gives the government the opprotunity to tax the loans to fund healthcare.

oops forgot to answer the questions!
Do you Support/Oppose the HealthCare Reform Bill or Undecided? Why?
I oppose the healthcare bill due to the overreaching power the government has now, plus the new taxes that WIll
have to come due to the enormous cost of the bill

Do you currently have HealthCare?
Yes, Tricare

Have you read the entire Bill?
No, but most of my lawmakers havent read it either : )

Where did you get your information?
Fox, Hannity, Drudge, own research

Andrew, first – thanks for the sacrifices you and all of our armed forces make. not only your sacrifices, but the sacrifices of your families as well. so sorry to hear of the issues your fellow brothers are enduring. i remain cautiously optimistic that this might spur on real change or be the catalyst for something more significant. thanks for also bringing up the student loan reform. i don’t think that is getting much press at all…

Ben there are lots of things that we do today in the government that were not part of the Constitution, and there are a lot of things that were part of our Constitution that are not part of our lives today; slavery, equal rights, right of women to vote. The point is that the Constitution is an open document that is able to be changed as each generation seeks to define itself. We decide what the government is, just as the men 200 years ago decided what the government was for them. I pray against the day that our government is no longer able to be changed and re-understood, for that was the genius of the founding fathers because they knew they didn't have all the answers and they knew that there would be issues that arose which they could not foresee. I've heard this argument before and it never ceases to amaze me that people assume that the founding fathers had it all figured out, which couldn't be further from the truth.

Interesting stuff at a site called voteocracy – info. about all kinds of legislation (via http://twitter.com/voteocracy) http://tinyurl.com/ye4k8df

Interesting stuff at a site called voteocracy – info. about all kinds of legislation (via http://twitter.com/voteocracy) http://tinyurl.com/ye4k8df

1. Do you Support/Oppose the HealthCare Reform Bill or Undecided? Why?

Yes-Support. Selfishly, I have a daughter with Juvenile Diabetes. The thoughts of her success as an adult are on my mind daily. Pre-existing conditions discriminate against the disabled….PERIOD. Unselfishly…There are many more with similar issues as my daughter's. Nobody should be left out.

2. Do you currently have HealthCare?

Yes. Tricare. Interestingly enough, I love my gov. run health care. I get mine on the army post and my family chooses the Johns Hopkins Plan through Tricare. (A gov funded civilian plan)
3. Have you read the entire Bill? No
4. Where did you get your information? My own conscience, CNN, MSNBC, FOX, …etc. I try to listen to all sides. …well… all but Rush

extra credit points

1. (optional) Do you have kids in public school / did you attend public school? Yes
2. (optional) Do you have auto insurance? Yes
3. (optional) Do you currently receive Social Security benefits? No

dude, thanks for reading and commenting. discrimination on the basis of pre-existing conditions sucks. PERIOD. LOL about Rush. so, does that mean no Glenn Beck ,either?

1. Do you Support/Oppose the HealthCare Reform Bill or Undecided? Why?
I didn't at first, but that is because I felt the bill did not go far enough. I am a single-payer kind of guy who was disappointed that even the public option was dropped. I mean, is it real reform if no new competition standards are introduced and we are simply giving the corporations who are partially responsible for this mess MORE customers?

However, I came to the realization that there are a few good things in this deficient bill. The removal of preexisting conditions as an obstacle, the creation of subsidies to help those who would otherwise go without insurance and continue to drive up the cost for those who carry policies, and the fact that the CBO has repeatedly shown that this bill is paid for and then some. A little good is better than no good.

2. Do you currently have HealthCare?
Well, I am a student and it is required. However, our Aetna policy was set to go up 40% starting January 1st for no apparent reason. Because of that, we had to drop our insurance. Obviously I did not tell the school. My wife's job offers insurance but it doesn't kick in until April (next week in fact). I tried to get another policy, but we were refused because of preexisting conditions. So, I have gone without my medication for a couple of months and it has been rough. I am thankful we will have insurance soon, but even this policy is significantly stretching our budget.

3. Have you read the entire Bill?
I read most of it.

4. Where did you get your information?
From reading the bill, listening to commentators on both sides, reading newspaper articles, and talking to friends.

extra credit points

1. (optional) Do you have kids in public school / did you attend public school?
No kids. I did attend public schools. I was fortunate to go to one of the top public schools in Ohio.

2. (optional) Do you have auto insurance?
(blush) not at the moment. We ran out of money and had to let our policy lapse. We are waiting on our income tax refund to get a new policy. Luckily, you don't really have to drive a whole lot in Chicago.

3. (optional) Do you currently receive Social Security benefits?
Nope.

P.S. I believe that if it is the government's responsibility to insure the well-being of its citizenry, i.e. they are charged with making sure people are protected against disaster (fires) and attack (criminals/invasion/terrorism), then access to adequate, affordable health care IS a responsibility of the government. We pay for the fire department, police department, and a standing army to protect us from things that might or might not happen. Why would we not want to make sure that everyone can live and can contribute to society for as long as possible?

Glenn Beck is over emotional and a lot of his "chalk board" drawings are not based on fact, but he loves to get people emotional. …plus he's a poopie head.

Dave, all I have time to say is RIGHT ON. And thank you EVERYONE for stoking my husbands ever growing ego!!! J/k This is good stuff, really.

Jeremy I agree with you that the founding fathers created a document that was living and breathing. However, you must also realize that the fathers wrote more than just the constitution. They wrote several papers after the constitution was written to leave a frame work for there understanding of what and how they did things. They left the constitution open to interpretation for a reason. However, it was never there intention for the government to provide for the people. The had poverty in there time, they had sickness, they had social reform issues. These things are not new in the 20 and 21st century. They were aware that those types of issues needed to be addressed. They also knew that it was not their role as governs and law makers to do so. You mention slavery, equal rights and the right for women to vote. All three of things differ from health care. Those are all RIGHTS recognized by the founding fathers, after all they established what our rights are.

Our founding fathers lived in an age of strict government control. The last thing I think they would have wanted to die for was a future country that repeated the same. They fought and died for freedom from intrusive government rule. SO. to pass a bill that MANDATES all private citizens to purchase health insurance or face government punishment and fines…… I think they would take that as a smack right in the face.

Everyone involved (myself included) in this debate are guilty of responding to an emotional situation. Health care is an emotional topic. No one wants to be sick. No one wants the people we love to be sick. But this piece of legislation does nothing to prevent that. It does not address the real underlying issues with health care costs. It does not mandate that we go out and build more hospitals, create more doctors and nurses. It does not set funding up to search for cures.

I believe that we all want the same thing, access to medicine that can be paid for with out breaking the monthly budget. But to do that requires more than the government holding a gun to our heads and saying buy health insurance. True reform takes place in the heart and souls of men and women. Once we realize that we are called to take care of one another. Then and only then will health care become "affordable" what ever that means.

Thanks for commenting. Interesting thoughts about government responsibility. One of the reasons we live in such a great country — we can all have a different opinion!

You're right things will be better once we answer the call to care for one another…until that dream comes true the reality is that there are people who are sick and too poor to afford healthcare.

You're right as well that the founding fathers didn't intend a lot of things, but they aren't here and they didn't have to face the situations that we face today, we are and as such we have to find answers. On another note our founding fathers never intended to have a permanent standing military either, and in the first 150 years of our nation we didn't have one. I could easily make the same founding father's intention argument against a standing army, some will say that national defense is a Constitutional issue but the reality is that those same founding fathers rejected the notion of a standing army even while they were concerning themselves with the Constitutional mandate of national defense, and yet over the past 60 years we have maintained our standing army even while that very thing goes against the intention of the founding fathers. I say all of that to say that it is OUR nation today, and it is up to us to decide what OUR nation will look like, just as the founding fathers had the same responsibility in their day.

The only difference Andrew is that the government isn't taking over the healthcare in the United States that still lies with the insurance and healthcare providers. We aren't even close to even the US military system of healthcare, far far from it.

I like what you said about the reform, yes why are we giving the same insurance companies MORE. I also agree with what some of actually most of what the bill is intended to do with regard to preexisting conditions and the like. I do disagree with the single payer/ public option. To many other countries have a system like that and it just does not work. I think in order to make health insurance more family budget friendly then open up competition. Remove the restrictions that keep me in Fl from buying a policy in Arizona. Let me shop where I can get the best deal.

Yes I am a free market kind of guy. The free market works. It has its flaws like everything else but it still works.

If the government wants to open a Health insurance company that is also fine with me. Just don't fund it with my tax dollars. Let it run like every other corporation.. Standing on its own merits.

Way to go, Ben! We're right there with you on the comments! Nathan will post the article I sent concerning abortion and the funding with our tax dollars.

At least he said he would. It was from Congressman John Fleming (R) Lousiana.

Just providing info. that was sent to me. Don't shoot the messenger. I'm trying to stay neutral during this discussion so all sides and opinions can be heard. (excerpt below)
————–
FLEMING HEALTH CARE REFORM UPDATE

Abortion is NOT Healthcare

In the midst of the fight over health care reform, a battle has also been raging over abortion. The Senate-passed version of health reform—the version the Majority is attempting to get to the President through whatever means possible—contains an unprecedented expansion of taxpayer funded abortion and will put thousands of unborn lives at risk. Making matters worse, the Majority Leadership in the House have made it clear that they do NOT intend to include the House-passed pro-life Stupak/Pitts amendment.
In fact, it has been reported that some Democratic members are telling Congressman Stupak that, “If you pass the Stupak amendment, more children will be born, and therefore it will cost us millions more. That’s one of the arguments I’ve been hearing,” Stupak says. The value of human life can never be reduced to dollars and cents. Have you ever heard anything so blatantly dismissive of human life?
• Under this bill, federal funds can be used for elective abortions at Community Health Centers around the country.

• Under this bill, federal funds will be used to subsidize health plans that cover abortions.

• Under this bill, federal power will be used to force Americans to pay for other people’s abortions even if they are morally opposed.
WHAT THIS MEANS FOR YOU: If this bill becomes law, your hard earned tax dollars will now be used to subsidize abortion.
THE DOCTOR'S DIAGNOSIS: Research shows that federal abortion restrictions have saved millions of lives. Changing longstanding abortion precedent will put thousands of unborn babies at risk. Ending human life should NOT be part of the conversation on health care reform.
As this process unfolds, I will continue to work to represent you, bring common sense to this debate, protect life from conception to death, and do all I can to prevent bad policy from becoming law
Sincerely,

JOHN FLEMING, M.D.
Member of Congress
——————-
(end excerpt) – thoughts? – NM

Nice thoughts. It IS an emotional topic. Sounds like one of the core issues around the debate is around whether HealthCare is a right and/or a potential sense of self-entitlement. Thoughts?

You again are right Jeremy this is OUR nation. OUR the people not OUR the government. I am not sure what your point about the standing military has to do with health care but I will comment on it any how.

You are correct that the founders did not believe in having a standing military, in there day it was part of your DUTY as a citizen to be available to be a part of the local militia which could be called up at any time to defend this nation. Which is why we the second amendment. The right to bear arms. Which is how the militia worked. Conflicts arise so did the military, conflicts left so did the military. During the first 150 years of our country we did not have two back to back world wars. Which is why we have a standing all voluntary military force today. Nor was the technology available in that day to have a threat an entire world away inflict harm upon our nation. So as far as that goes as long as there is a threat then there needs to be a defense against it. I am not going to debate the individual merits of why or why not we should have or have not gone to ANY of our recent conflicts. Those are things that were done and can not be undone.

Secondly, to your point of what we did not have 150 years ago..Professional politicians and paid lobbyists. They are today, and some how I don't think that makes us any better for it.

Yes there are people who are sick and poor, but by our current law NO ONE can be denied medical treatment, that is part of HIPPA. The health insurance privacy and portability act. It is very clear that medical services can NOT be denied any person based on their ability to pay. If anyone presents to any emergency room for treatment they must be seen and can not be turned away for lack of an ability to pay.

Lets remember something else. THIS bill does nothing to address WHY health care costs are high. TORT reform and a free open market are better solutions than mandating that everyone BUY health insurance or be penalized for not. There are good things in this bill, but being just good sometimes is not enough to make the rest of the bill right.

Strangely enough if you still have to pay for health insurance how does this help the poor? Half of can't afford it is still can't afford it. Not to mention initial treatment of the health problem is just the beginning. I may be wrong on this next point but I don't recall anywhere in the bill talking about how to cover drug costs and follow up care.

Hospitals, doctors, nurses, therapists, everyone involved in health care deserve to get paid for what they do. We are in an industry to care for people, that does not mean we should have to do it for free. Hospitals today write off quite a bit of money to take care of those who can not pay. The hospital gets a tax write off and it helps those who are sick get treatment. Let's not demonize them for that.

Lastly, I enjoy living in one of the few countries where we are free to debate ideas without the fear of persecution, worship whatever deity that you chose, and get a say in our formation of laws. For that I THANK the military for it is under there watch that we are able to do just those things. THAT is what the founding fathers of our country wanted.

Do you Support/Oppose the HealthCare Reform Bill or Undecided? Why?
No. I think there a bits here and there that are worth keeping, but overall it is a bloated and misdirected mess. In trying to fix everything in one bill, you end of with a bill that causes more problems than it will solve. I'm very disappointed in the backdoor deals that made all of this possible.

Do you currently have HealthCare? Yes

Have you read the entire Bill? No

Where did you get your information? Various news agencies. I have read portions of the bill, but not the entire bill.

extra credit points

(optional) Do you have kids in public school / did you attend public school? My kids are home-schooled although my oldest attended public school for 2 years and my youngest attended for 1. I did attend public schools.

(optional) Do you have auto insurance? Yes, I'm a rule follower.

(optional) Do you currently receive Social Security benefits? Nope, and I don't factor them into my retirement calculations since I think the fund will be bankrupt before I receive a dime.

Providing some more info. I received from another friend. An AP article discussing Facts and Myths about the HealthCare Reform Bill – interesting read… http://tinyurl.com/yfozwo9

Social comments and analytics for this post…

This post was mentioned on Twitter by NMcMillen: Healthcare for you, your momma, and Obama http://tinyurl.com/yduyyl8 #fb…

Not sure if we are supposed to engage in debate or simply state our opinions but I have to take exception when you say, "I do disagree with the single payer/ public option. To many other countries have a system like that and it just does not work."

I have spoken with countless people from these other countries, as well as Americans who have spent significant time in places like Canada, Great Britain, Germany, etc, and not one of them would say that their systems don't work. In fact, they cannot believe that we don't have the same system here. They love their universal health care. Do they ever have complaints? Sure. Do they think those systems are perfect? No. But they do think, and I find it interesting that without exception (in my interactions) the Americans who have experienced both our system and a single-payer system, that a government run, not-for-profit, universal, single-payer health care is better than what we have.

Also, do you think the government should get out of the 'business' of providing fire departments, police departments, the military, etc. and simply let the free market provide those services? Why do we feel okay about these, which are designed to protect and sustain life, being provided by the government, but we don't want the government to provide health care for all of its citizens (our neighbors)?

I am not intending to start an argument or anything. I don't have any delusions of changing anyone's mind on this issue. I simply wanted to point out that your blanket statement about single-payer systems not working is not entirely accurate according to those who experience them.

One thought that I have is that if you have your health insurance through your employer, it is very likely that some of your premiums goes to providing abortions. People should check to see if their plan actually covers abortion because that means that it is certain that some of your premium goes to paying for abortions for those on the same plan (since you are in a group plan). However, just because YOUR plan might not cover abortion, if the company providing the insurance (for example Aetna) even offers plans that do cover abortion, you can bet that some of your premium goes to paying for some of those abortions.

The point is, even if some of these government subsidies go to plans which cover abortion, that is no different than the majority of insurance plans (the last number I saw was that roughly 80% of all people with insurance potentially have had some of their premium used to cover abortion) which we already have. Bottom line, if you are concerned about your money going to cover abortions, you will either need to do some very extensive research or simply forego having health insurance altogether.

Thanks for commenting! I KNEW you were a "rule follower"

Looks like some good, intelligent conversation going on. I like it and am always open to someone else’s ideas. Like a mentioned earlier, I don’t know, nor does anyone else, if this “reform” will be better or worse for the country. I DO believe the premise is great, but great ideas don’t always work out. I am skeptical of government running anything, since they don’t have a good track record of being able to in the past. I am not comfortable with the fact that they have their hands in banking, the car industry, and now healthcare and student loans. Although student loans have nothing to do with healthcare, this was something that was added to this bill. The government will be the only place you can go to get a student loan. Do we really want or trust beaurocrats (reps or dems) running all these functions of our lives?

2nd… fact is medicare declines coverage for twice as many medical services than private insurance does. Why would this be any different with the new “reform?” Has government ever run anything more efficiently and effective than a privately run business… besides the military?

I am not trying to argue either. I am speaking from personal experience, 2nd hand. My half sister and her husband were on their honeymoon in Canada when he feel and broke his leg in three places. It was a severe fracture that required surgery. The treatment they received as it was described to me, was to first stabilize the leg and place in a splint, not a cast a splint. Once his x-rays were reviewed he was told he would need surgery "as soon as possible" if he wanted to regain "full functionality " of the leg. According to my half sisters recap the Canadian Dr. told her it was good thing they were Americans or they would have a significant wait to receive the same surgery in Canada. They were able to stabilize his leg well enough for travel and arrange transport to a hospital in Detroit, where he received the surgery a day later. Yes they both have good jobs with GREAT insurance and yes they can "afford" it. Yes, he has recovered fully and is doing fine with no loss of function to his leg. In case you were wondering..

I am sure that both "sides" can come up with stories to support their point of view. I am not against some of the fundamental ideas behind the bill. I do believe in "health care" reform.

However, I don't think that it is "HEALTH CARE" that needs the reform. It is how we pay for health care. I am not being forced to buy health care. I and so is every other American including the poor are being forced to buy health INSURANCE, whether I want it or not. I am not being forced to buy health care. No one is making me go to the doctor.

We already have medicare and medicaid to help people who can not "afford" to pay for health care costs. We also have HIPPA, which guarantees that you are seen by a doctor. If those systems are broken fix them. Why do we need another LAW forcing us to buy health insurance?

What has happened to freedom of choice. If I choose not to have health insurance then that is MY choice and MY choices should not be forced on anyone else. That is what this law now does. It takes away my freedom to choose to not to participate.

As far as police, fire and military. That is an interesting point, I wonder how much better those organizations (other than military) would run if they actually had to be accountable to someone. Think about it, crime rates are up but we can't fire the police. Not to mention there are still many places that those services are not government funded but all volunteer. In those places the communities decide at the local level how much or how little to fund them. Granted those are smaller communities but I don't see what size had to do with it. Even hear in our home city those resources are not evenly distributed. So I am having trouble tying in police and fire to health care. But if it is in the sense that the government gets to decide who I see as a doctor or what they will and wont treat. Then no I don't want that for me or anyone else.Because that is what health CARE is. Care does not equal Insurance.

This debate has quickly and I think purposefully turned our attention away from the real issue. The issues is NOT about who can or can not receive medical attention and drugs but how we pay for it. I don't think anyone wants anyone else to suffer, but that is not what is at the root of this legislation. The root is money and money is the root of all evil…

I do have the illusion that sometimes through discussion, minds can be changed and opinions can be altered. I fear the day when that stops happening.

PS.. I hope that the tone of my remarks are not misunderstood…the written language is hard to communicate emotion or lack there of…

PPS.. I do like some of the points you bring up Dave and I hope you are doing well in Chicago..